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The update with the patch for Spectre and Meltdown is sitting behind a permission wall. I could easily uncheck them and send the rest of the updates on through. The way it's disguised with innocuous wording doesn't fill me with much hope. Yesterday I had created a restore point before connecting to the internet.
Dare I install them?
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pmcollectorboy: The update with the patch for Spectre and Meltdown is sitting behind a permission wall. I could easily uncheck them and send the rest of the updates on through. The way it's disguised with innocuous wording doesn't fill me with much hope. Yesterday I had created a restore point before connecting to the internet.
Dare I install them?
What are you worried about if you do install them?
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pmcollectorboy: The update with the patch for Spectre and Meltdown is sitting behind a permission wall. I could easily uncheck them and send the rest of the updates on through. The way it's disguised with innocuous wording doesn't fill me with much hope. Yesterday I had created a restore point before connecting to the internet.
Dare I install them?
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GR00T: What are you worried about if you do install them?
Something borking or a reduction in performance.
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GR00T: What are you worried about if you do install them?
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pmcollectorboy: Something borking or a reduction in performance.
Unless you run a server or a cloud service, you won't even notice a change in performance.
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misteryo: Unless you run a server or a cloud service, you won't even notice a change in performance.
It is not true for every system - older PC setups are noticeably affected.
It really boils down to what you're more afraid of: are you more afraid of your rig being hacked and having someone steal your info/passwords/etc or are you more afraid of a performance drop?
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GR00T: having someone steal your info/passwords/etc
Well, stealing data is one thing, but loss of data is another, and I think it's more important for users.
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GR00T: having someone steal your info/passwords/etc
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Lexor: Well, stealing data is one thing, but loss of data is another, and I think it's more important for users.
What do you mean "loss of data?"
And where are you getting this "older setups" fare worse info?
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misteryo: What do you mean "loss of data?"
Any "innocent" intrusion which starts with stealing passwords can be finished with taking control over whole PC and losing data / files in the end.
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misteryo: And where are you getting this "older setups" fare worse info?
From Microsoft itself.
With Windows 10 on newer silicon (2016-era PCs with Skylake, Kabylake or newer CPU), benchmarks show single-digit slowdowns, but we don’t expect most users to notice a change because these percentages are reflected in milliseconds.

With Windows 10 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), some benchmarks show more significant slowdowns, and we expect that some users will notice a decrease in system performance.

With Windows 8 and Windows 7 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), we expect most users to notice a decrease in system performance.
Post edited January 12, 2018 by Lexor
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misteryo: What do you mean "loss of data?"
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Lexor: Any "innocent" intrusion which starts with stealing passwords can be finished with taking control over whole PC and losing data / files in the end.
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misteryo: And where are you getting this "older setups" fare worse info?
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Lexor: From Microsoft itself.

With Windows 10 on newer silicon (2016-era PCs with Skylake, Kabylake or newer CPU), benchmarks show single-digit slowdowns, but we don’t expect most users to notice a change because these percentages are reflected in milliseconds.

With Windows 10 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), some benchmarks show more significant slowdowns, and we expect that some users will notice a decrease in system performance.

With Windows 8 and Windows 7 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), we expect most users to notice a decrease in system performance.
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Lexor:
Call me a conspiracy nut, but this almost sounds like another Microsoft attempt to force users into "upgrading" (downgrading) to Windows 10.
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misteryo: What do you mean "loss of data?"
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Lexor: Any "innocent" intrusion which starts with stealing passwords can be finished with taking control over whole PC and losing data / files in the end.
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misteryo: And where are you getting this "older setups" fare worse info?
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Lexor: From Microsoft itself.

With Windows 10 on newer silicon (2016-era PCs with Skylake, Kabylake or newer CPU), benchmarks show single-digit slowdowns, but we don’t expect most users to notice a change because these percentages are reflected in milliseconds.

With Windows 10 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), some benchmarks show more significant slowdowns, and we expect that some users will notice a decrease in system performance.

With Windows 8 and Windows 7 on older silicon (2015-era PCs with Haswell or older CPU), we expect most users to notice a decrease in system performance.
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Lexor:
It's important to remember that these weaknesses have existed for a decade or more. It is not the case that we are suddenly unsafe.

And, reading the article you quoted, they say that only 1 of the 3 variants cause the slowdowns even on older machines. Do you understand what "variants" they are talking about?
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TARFU: Call me a conspiracy nut, but this almost sounds like another Microsoft attempt to force users into "upgrading" (downgrading) to Windows 10.
Yes, it really feels like it, indeed. You can add another fact to it: last free upgrade option to Windows 10 (for Windows 7 users) ended at the end of 2017.... Can you see that pattern? :D

The truth is that a few my friends with older machines reported some slowdowns... it still needs to be evaluated more precisely.

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misteryo: It's important to remember that these weaknesses have existed for a decade or more. It is not the case that we are suddenly unsafe.
It is so wrong to think that way. Yes, they existed for many years, but there was no public knowledge about them. Now, these exploits are "documented", publicly revealed, so even script-kiddies will try to use them.

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misteryo: And, reading the article you quoted, they say that only 1 of the 3 variants cause the slowdowns even on older machines. Do you understand what "variants" they are talking about?
You have them explained in the table on top.
Post edited January 12, 2018 by Lexor
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TARFU: Call me a conspiracy nut, but this almost sounds like another Microsoft attempt to force users into "upgrading" (downgrading) to Windows 10.
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Lexor: Yes, it really feels like it, indeed. You can add another fact to it: last free upgrade option to Windows 10 (for Windows 7 users) ended at the end of 2017.... Can you see that pattern? :D

The truth is that a few my friends with older machines reported some slowdowns... it still needs to be evaluated more precisely.

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misteryo: It's important to remember that these weaknesses have existed for a decade or more. It is not the case that we are suddenly unsafe.
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Lexor: It is so wrong to think that way. Yes, they existed for many years, but there was no public knowledge about them. Now, these exploits are "documented", publicly revealed, so even script-kiddies will try to use them.

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misteryo: And, reading the article you quoted, they say that only 1 of the 3 variants cause the slowdowns even on older machines. Do you understand what "variants" they are talking about?
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Lexor: You have them explained in the table on top.
Ah, I see the "variants" listed now. Thanks.

Even though they are publicly known now, I have nowhere seen it stated that any old "script kiddie" can exploit these security weaknesses. You'd have to be targeted - and targeted by someone of high skill.

It is a real security exploit and needs to be patched, and the industry is working on patching it. The first patches are slowing some things down - but again it's mostly the cloud computing industry hurt by the slowdowns - private users are not really affected unless running their own server.

But being alarmist and conspiracy theorizing are not helpful.
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misteryo: private users are not really affected unless running their own server.
One of the reasons for such opinions after reading internet reviews is that probably most "slowdowning" patch requires BIOS update and most BIOSes are still "under construction" - so most users are still before that step.
Im using a Westmere EP and a Haswell computer and haven't seen a slowdown on either one - using the "fixed" OSX version at least. I don't think it will be dramatically different with Windows. if the most recent Win 10 updates include the first patches (at least it installed something when i used Windows today) then i didn't see a major decrease in Windows either.

Don't think the average user will see much of a difference, supposedly its mostly the high I/O server stuff thats more severely affected.

EDIT: That said, never harms to do a quick backup before changing anything about the OS ;)
Post edited January 12, 2018 by ignisferroque